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Post by fivedriver on Feb 13, 2023 20:05:34 GMT
Hello all. TOG failed her MOT recently which has given me a nice little list of jobs to sort, one of which is the lack of the blue full beam telltale lamp in the instrument cluster.
Does anyone have suggestions of where to begin please? Is the lamp on it's own separate fuse? Could it be simply be a blown bulb? Has fitting the new lights done something?
Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks. Guy
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Post by Roadie on Feb 14, 2023 21:57:31 GMT
When you initially posted about the MOT failure items I had a trawl through the wiring diagrams. The tell tale gets a switched chassis (earth / -) connection which is common with the feed to the headlights.
Couldn't find where the fused positive comes from though. Probably a common feed to the instrument cluster.
Didn't post anything at the time as I only had half the answer.
Edit - Turns out I didn't even have half the answer! See later reply.
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Post by RS on Feb 15, 2023 11:00:55 GMT
I think the best place to start is with the bulb, if that's okay, check the condition and tracks of the printed circuit board on the instrument cluster, is there a feed to the bulb ?
If no feed, then it'll need to be traced back through the loom.
Have you checked to see if there is any water ingress to the ECU in the passenger foot well ?
Are the earths situated under the headlights good and grounded ?
You could try disconnecting the headlights to see if the warning light illuminates.
I have lent my Workshop manual/wiring diagram to a friend of mine at the moment, I'll try and get it back off him.
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Post by Roadie on Feb 15, 2023 13:42:56 GMT
Think I have the answer but I'll have to do a little bit more investigation later. Got to take a poorly cat to the vets in a few minutes.
In the meantime can you have a look at the headlight connectors. On your new headlight kit there is a connection to all three pins on one side and only two on the other. Can you tell me which side is the two pin plug?
Edit - See next reply
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Post by Roadie on Feb 15, 2023 16:04:04 GMT
OK. Worked it out. Here's how the telltale is wired in standard configuration. The chassis/earth comes from the instrument cluster. It is common to the connection for the left and right indicator telltales so if they work OK then the earth conection is good. Now to the interesting bit. The positive feed comes from the switched earth connection of the dipped beam. Confusing I know. The theory is that on main beam current leaks back from the live headlight feed, through the dipped beam filaments and illuminates the telltale. Wired in this way the telltale illuminates on main beam but not with flash to pass. My best guess is that because of the way your replacement front lights work there isn't any leakage back through the dipped beam filaments. Can't remember exactly how it all worked but there is a relay in there that I think operates the dipped beam. What I do remember is that there was a small bulb in the back of one of the clusters that shone nowhere and we couldn't really work out what it was for. I now suspect that this is to provide an alternative leakage path for the telltale. So first thing to check is whether the telltale works when headlights are on and switched to main beam. It may be that the MOT tester has only checked whether it works by pulling the flash to pass. It's not designed to work then, only when headlights on and switched to main beam. If that fails then check that pesky little seemingly pointless bulb on the back of the cluster. If that hasn't blown and is properly connected then check the telltale bulb in the instrument panel. I'll wait with bated breath for updates. Have fun.
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Post by fivedriver on Feb 16, 2023 21:18:09 GMT
Many thanks guys. I shall have a check on these things on Saturday so watch this space. The help is much appreciated.
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Post by fivedriver on Feb 18, 2023 20:30:14 GMT
Hi gang, here's a quick update. I tried the telltale on full beam and it doesn't illuminate. I inspected the bulb in the loom and it appears to be intact with all of the elements whole. However, it is chromed so not easy to see clearly. I lost the light before I could strip the instrument cluster down so will try to get to that on Tuesday when I'm free next. I'll take a peek at the telltale bulb then. It might also give me an opportunity to tackle the replacement stalks. Cheers, Guy
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Post by Roadie on Feb 18, 2023 23:04:46 GMT
One more thing to try before you strip the instrument panel down.
Whichever side headlight assembly has the three pin plug, replace it with a standard H4 bulb. If the telltale works then it's something to do with the new headlight assembly.
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Post by fivedriver on Feb 21, 2023 12:59:18 GMT
Paul, you're a blommin' wizard and no mistake guv'nor.😁
I used an H4 bulb as per your suggestion and the tell tale illuminates. So, there's an issue with the wiring on the new lights.
What's the next step please?
Edit*. I don't know if it's pertinent but the sidelights in the cluster aren't wired in. The sidelights on TOG are taken directly from the OE loom. I don't think it affects anything but thought I'd mention it, just in case.
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Post by Roadie on Feb 21, 2023 16:29:48 GMT
Check the little bulb in the headlight assembly again. If you have a multimeter check for continuity across it. If you haven't then dab it across a PP3 battery to see if it lights up.
If that bulb is OK then try adding a W5W bulb connected across one of the three pin headlight plugs.
Across Red and Red/Yellow if you are working on the left hand side.
Across Red and Green if you are working on the right hand side.
If none of that works then the only way will be to run a pair of wires from the headlight connection to a new telltale. Can't use either of the existing connections within the cluster. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
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Post by fivedriver on Feb 21, 2023 18:26:23 GMT
Thanks Paul. A multimeter is on my shopping list so as soon as I pick one up I'll do as you suggest. Again, very grateful for your help. All the best, Guy
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Post by fivedriver on Feb 23, 2023 13:24:15 GMT
Hi again everyone. A chum at work gave me an old analogue multimeter and with that I discovered that although the bulb in the lens unit looked good, it wasn't. After fitting a new W5W bulb the full beam tell tale works again. Yaay! Thank you Paul for pointing me in the correct direction. That's one item ticked off the list. 👍
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Post by Roadie on Feb 24, 2023 22:45:24 GMT
So now we know for certain what that bulb is for. Not the simplest of diagnosis but got the little grey cells working. All's well that ends well.
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